Building a $10K/Mo SaaS - Watch This Before Starting

0:00In this episode, I decided to bring on my brother Jordan to walk through some of the AI workflows to discuss some of the new AI releases and how we can help people go from zero to finished product in just a few hours. Maybe you're watching this and you have a great idea, but you don't know how to use AI to make that idea come to life. Well, stick around because we're going to be discussing all of that in this episode. Let's get right into it. What's going on, Jordan? Welcome to the party. I wanted to bring you on because you are deeply involved in the AI space and there's so much happening. I just want to know kind of from your point of view. We'll just start it off with this hot take. I believe that it's one of the best times to be a builder creator especially when it comes to using AI. Um I just want to know like your thoughts.

0:46What do you think? Like is this the best time to be building a startup right now? >> Without question. I mean what other time would be better? Uh I mean like even look 10 years ago the things that you needed to get something off the ground was actually insane. Even during co like everyone was kind of stuck and they were in like entrepreneurship went on the rise like little side projects and stuff. That's really where like I tap back into Twitter at the time X during COVID. I felt like there was just like an underground like ground swell of like indie hackers and like Peter Levels was was popping off back then even though he had started in like 2017. Amount of work that you had to do to get a project off the ground then was actually insane to

1:32be an indie hacker. Like if if anyone is listening to this and tried, it was literally so hard to even get a landing page up. I that was my whole reason of not getting into the space is just I don't want to have to learn all this programming language and you know I have a good idea but when am I going to find the time to learn all that and you know that's why talking to people like yourself and having other people come on the podcast um where you just get like a point of view of how they're using these tools and what they're building and and you're right it's like even three four years ago it you know to build a quick mobile app, you know, took significantly longer than you can literally build 90% of an MVP in a couple hours nowadays.

2:17So, um, I want to know what are you working on? Like what's the biggest project that you're working on right now and how are you building it? Yeah, we're working on ideabrowser.com right now is like the main focus. And what it is is a it's kind of a blend between like a daily newsletter where we send you a validated idea every single day where we send our scrapers and our agents out into the world to go find vetted ideas and yeah, we we break it down based on frameworks how you could go to market with this. If you're a part of the pro plan, you we give you a bunch of prompts and things that you can go and build it and start in like one click. And then we also have a a research agent that allows you to plug in your own ideas and get reports back like this on how to structure the offer

3:03execution, etc. Because at late checkout and like in the startup idea podcast universe, we are in the light bulb business. We are trying to inspire people to see an idea, have an idea that they've thought about for weeks or months or years even, but reduce that friction to create. Are we going to launch your business? No, absolutely not. You know, even though it's the best time to be a builder right now, I still think it's incredibly hard to do. you know, and I think you're, you know, we we look up to you and how you've been able to use idea browser and, you know, go from, you know, you took actually like one of my mom's ideas like you don't need this, but the >> one was that >> the uh the eBay one was like my mom's

3:50idea and I just put it through idea browser to make it like the idea of the day because she was she had a bunch of stuff that she didn't want to sell on eBay and I was the one having to list it. So anyway, like you turned that into easy flip. Y >> and are generating revenue within two months, less than two months. >> Yeah. >> And that's with, you know, you have a you have a little bit of an audience in that that space, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. So I I found >> like incredible though like the fact that you were able to go like to we just talked about like you as like a case study on internals like if we can do that for Bo and others then we're fired up. So really it's all around like making this product better and helping reduce the friction to help people get ideas out of their head or or put ideas

4:37in their head and allow them to build it. >> This in itself is an amazing idea. This platform um I'm trying to think of other things that are similar uh and I can't think of any. Maybe it's just cuz I don't know. But um I'll put a link down below if you guys are catching on this replay. I've been able to launch two apps with literally no experience. Like we're talking 75 days ago, I didn't even know what Cloud Code did. I didn't even know what a database was. Um I didn't know anything. And this took me from zero to like 80% of like understanding how to build an app. What is what does a structure of an app look like? Like how do users get verified? So authentication, where do we store the information for the users? a database

5:24and how do we plug in all these APIs so we can talk to each other and transfer information and use a lot of the tools that are being available to us like you know Nana Banana Sora 2 and now I kind of like was able you know idea browser was able to kind of help me visualize what what is an app like how does it work and then you can just apply that same logic to other ideas that you have here um I have the paid plan I think it's worth it but Yeah, this this has helped me build what we're building. Um, so we got easy flip and then we have perfect a pick, which is um something I'm actually building with Paul um in the group and without like being able to validate the ideas, it would just take me more time. Like I'd have to go to

6:10Google, see if it's trending, go search Reddit, see if it's actually something I can build. Because what I've learned in Startup Empire, too, is like I think the most important thing is validation. you know, like is what I'm building gonna actually be what people want? And if it's not, then it doesn't mean that it's not worth building. I just think that if you're trying to make money, um that's a huge thing. So, what I like is all these graphs, you know, um recently, um I was just playing around with like a photo recognition tool where resellers can go out to garage sales or thrift stores and just take a photo of an item and then it it scrapes all the sold comparables on Poshmark and eBay and then just gives a people the idea of like what's it worth? What is this item sold for recently? And

6:55you can see like this is this is a thing. People want this. Um, you know, no one wants to go manually search for what items are worth. Um, so obviously there's demand. Um, but good job. Like how did it's not just you that built this. Did you build it with like a team or how did you >> Yeah, we have we have one we have one developer on the team. So it's like very very um, you know, streamlined. So we have we have a developer who helps um, a lot and um, yeah. So, Greg Eisenberg and I run he does the startup ideas podcast. I help run startup empire and then we have idea browser as our product. So, our methodology is um the ACP framework.

7:43Greg came up with this probably like I don't know like three years ago or so. It's audience community product. So, find an underserved audience, collect them, put them in a community, listen to what they want, and then build products that they're begging to buy. We think it's like the best way to derisk a business like full stop. And I think once you see the ACP, it's hard to unsee it. Um like there's multiple, you know, examples of like Mr. Beast is doing ACP in a way with Fastables, right? And Prime. Those are like the most public examples where it's like Jake Paul had an audience. They car it was a lot of kids there. He's an athlete and you know, or it's Logan uh Logan Paul for for Prime. So yeah. Um Jake's trying to do the same thing I guess with the deodorant, but um I digress. So yeah,

8:30that's like what we're doing is like the Startup Ideas podcast audience community is Startup Empire and like what product could we build them? Like we ran the numbers on Startup Empire and a large piece of people were either looking for ideas or looking to validate the ideas that they had. Like 80% of people that came in were at that's what they were after. So, we were like, what could we build that would serve the our community and something that we would use? Like, we wanted to be the audience, too. And every time we had an idea, a million Google tabs would pop up, you know, like bing bing bing, like check domain, um like go to market strategy, what are we going to call it? Um what's the brand going to be? What's some inspiration,

9:16mood board, all those things like happening really quickly? So, we're like, what's a product that could spin up these agents that could help you do that without the gajillion Google tabs and without the stress? Um, and and be validated for you personally, too. Like, that's what we're working on right now as a recommendation engine to where like we can say, why are you saving this agency business when you just said you wanted, you know, a recurring revenue SAS that uses your experience with B2B sales? you know, why are you starting like a a video agency for plumbers, right? >> Right. Like you don't like you're not going to be the person that should do that. You could do it, sure, but you might not that might not be the best idea for you. And idea selection and

10:02project selection is like a huge thing. So anyway, that's how we created idea browser. >> Yeah, I mean following the proven framework. Yeah. So, like for people that are in this space like me a couple months ago, um beginners are the biggest part of any niche, you know, and I think that for anyone watching just, you know, stumbling across this video, if you're beginning out there, time is like time is my currency, right? And I don't have a ton of time with running other businesses in the background to be learning every single thing that comes out and um all these tools can be overwhelming. So just using idea browser just allowed me to get more focus and I just want to show off this one thing that can be helpful for people that are interested in launching their idea is um

10:50you have this like a builder right here and this really helped me understand what are the things that I need to build around this idea. The one most important thing that I've learned is that product requirements document when you're going to be building this out. This is like your product roadmap. This is like the brain and the plan to your idea. And this I didn't even know existed. And it's also going to make your building much easier too. Like if you're using cloud code or um you know any codecs or whatever um using this is going to be the guide to your project. Um so it's really cool. You could just take this prompt and click on Bolt, Lovable, Claude, whatever, and you can just copy that prompt right into um any of these

11:36um LLMs and they're going to spit out a great PRD that you could then take to some of these builders and then start spinning up your idea. That was huge. Um, I didn't have this when I first built Easy Flip and I was coming across so many like inconsistencies, hallucinations, things that just weren't like this is not what I wanted because like Claude didn't have anything to go off of. So, that was huge. And you also have other things here that help, you know, people, you know, build out their idea. Yeah, I think this is just such a a great tool. Um, you know, people procrastinate the most when they just don't know how to do something. So, this is the how right here. Here you go. Just knock out every one of these tabs and you'll have a working product probably within a day.

12:21You know, I didn't know how to do any of this. We made a lot of progress just in the first day. >> Yeah. And I think a part of it too is like even if you don't have it built fully. Seeing it come to life a will let you know like am I really excited about this still? You know, you see it come to life and you're just like no thank you. I'm not excited about this. Perfect. that's also super valuable because every no is, you know, saying yes to like five things or whatever um the adage is. So, I think that's like kind of our methodology and ideally like when agents get better and these multi- aent frameworks get better, we'll have a main orchestrator agent that's like, "Yo, I'm Bo. This is what I'm about. Here's my profile. Here's what I've loved. Here's

13:06what I've clicked on. Here's what I'm interested in. Generate ideas for me." and also like give me a go to market plan and what should I start on first and have it be more of like an AI co-founder with these agents. So that's like where where we're headed with it. I'd say the agent stuff is still really early. Curious to hear what you think on it. It's more for like they're just not that good at like actions yet in my opinion. >> Yeah. I Yeah, I still think even just getting into the space and actually building in it, I still think we're just so early. um just and maybe it's just because I'm live in a rural area, but if I ever mention AI to anyone, their eyes kind of just gloss over and I just I don't really like to go deep into it like I'm doing with people in Startup

13:53Empire is like those are the people that are like passionate about this, but when I'm out in the real world talking to people, they it just they don't have it they don't have any comment like there's no comment about it. And um so surrounding yourself with other people that are also heavily in this space. I I tell uh there are a few friends that we jump on Zoom and I'm helping them get cloud code installed and building this and they're like whoa so we're coding now. It's like well you're vibe coding. So it's a little different. So >> we'reing chill don't call it coding. That was >> that was two years ago. >> Yeah. So, it's just like such a good opportunity and um and I just tell, you know, people that there's a whole another world going on right now that people have no idea about. The fastest

14:38growing companies right now in the world, AI startups, like lovable. I mean, look at all of them that are just like, oh yeah, we we were at 600 million ARR now and we launched four months ago. And you're like, >> it's inconceivable. It's inconceivable. True. >> Um, so yeah, >> it's not even real. It's crazy. And whether the businesses are long lasting, it it doesn't matter. It's just there's a ton of money pouring into this space. So, um, and that's why I wanted to start building in public just to kind of help people that like myself that have an idea, building in public. And even though the the video might not turn out is still going to be helpful for a lot of people that, you know, um, actually it was a topic in today's call is like, is this valuable to people? Yes, it is.

15:23even you just clicking around on buttons and setting up claude code. Um that's super valuable because people learn and you know differently and um you know that's why I wanted to start the channel just show like what I'm working on. Um >> you killed it dude. Like seriously when I say we talk about you a lot. I think you're you it's just like you're a nice archetype of who we're trying to help and serve, you know, and you're taking action and sharing along the way. And like even watching you go from the last 60 days has been incredible, you know, like it's it's super cool to see the the curiosity driven like development approach that you have where now you're teaching people who are behind who are

16:09like 60 days behind you, which used to be like six years behind you. Now it's 60 days behind you, which is which is really cool because I think there's like a freshness there. um where you're like, "Bro, I was just there. Like, I was you last week, you know, no problem. I got you." You know, >> I think that's really really cool. So, um you're killing it. I love I love the channel and um love the two projects that you're working on. >> Yeah. Um I appreciate it. I I mean I think surrounding yourself with people that are have like the same vision, goals, values, see the same opportunity is hugely important because it is a very kind of like lonely. You know, you're at your computer, you're building cool stuff, but you have no one to tell. It's like I could tell my wife or it's like,

16:55"Look, I just connected the Open AI SDK agents and she's like, "What?" And it's like, "Who do I tell this to?" >> So, and that's why I love now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I love the whole space on X and you know it's hard to get lost in the sauce on there with so much cool stuff coming out. But let's just go with all three main things that have released just in the last few weeks that I I'm still kind of like, wow, how do I use these tools? I I'm just going to say the tool and then you just give me your thoughts. Um >> I love this. >> What do you think about like Sora 2? It just released. What kind of opportunity does it bring for builders? What have some your thoughts on how maybe you would use it personally um in your

17:41workflow? >> Yeah, Sora looks incredible. I've I did the mobile version like I I made myself skateboard and you know in like a downtown golden hour. I can send it to you so we you can like edit it over. It took two seconds. Like I literally did my face. I read three numbers and I had a video of me like doing the kick flip down a set of stairs in like a mountain town. Yeah. >> During golden hour and to see that go from like zero to that in 30 seconds with zero prompt engineering anything. I think it's just a really big unlock and I think I like what OpenAI is doing because it's all in the same ecosystem. you know there's cling and there's VO3 but if you already are chat GBT subscriber which a lot of people are and

18:27as the platform gets more sticky and more inclusive like Google for example like V3 and Sora together and with the APIs you can use both models so I think like the consumer is actually empowered more like consumer to create I mean like BTOC basically um we are the we are the actual winners like as these models fight for AGI and relevance and whatever, like they're going to battle. We're going to win regardless. So, I think Sora is incredible and it just allows you to create video content like you haven't before. Um, so I was thinking about it. It's like how can we pump out, you know, like short form video on like ideas of the day or top trends of the week. um whether that's

19:13Greg or whether that's a character we create or whether it's just like I don't know like a mood board kind of vibe using Sora um which would take a lot of instruction and creative direction before. So um I think a lot of people and people call that AI slop. I just I just don't subscribe to the whole oh that's going to be AI slop. Of course dude there's there's there's slop out there. There's human slop out there right now. You know, >> you know, like human created slop, not human slop, but human created slop. >> I need to buy that domain. Aislop.com merch. Um, >> yeah, you're right. There's I mean, it's it's just a trending word. But yeah, it's it's to be able to create content

19:59from just like you said in 30 seconds, it's gonna the supply is going to outweigh the demand. So the people that are going to rise to the top are the ones who make the best content with it, right? And um my mind is like spinning on that whole idea of, you know, marketing material, storytelling. You had a great tweet just like a month ago that it was like storytelling is the superpower. Storytelling is the key. And if you can craft a good story, whatever product you're trying to sell, and if the story tells, you know, from zero to hero in that short 30 second or two minute video, um, people feel empowered that they need your product to to do this. So yeah, you put the most valuable skill in the world right now is storytelling. So why do you think that

20:45is? Why do you think people relate to that so much? >> Well, it's just time. It's timeless, right? like telling a good story. As long as humans are involved and human psychology is involved, then that's all that's ever basically existed, right? Like business, sales, whatever, anything that's moved people both from an entertainment perspective or a motivation perspective is all driven back to psychology and keeping someone's attention to get your desired result. Um, crowds gather around good stories. Stories help create meaning around things that are, you know, meaningless without stories. Like if you look at like a, you know, every sports story that ever existed, it's like if it's

21:31just if it's a guy who is, you know, you like look at Arch Manning right now, he's like getting, you know, slammed because he's not good, right? And it's like that's a story because his literal uncles are Eli and Payton. So it's like if it was just a dude and he was like, "Oh, highly cruded." is just he's just a flop, but like he's the heir to the throne that's flopping. So that's a story >> versus like a come-up story. It's like that guy lived on the streets and now he's playing in front of 100,000 people, you know, that that's why people like it. So I think that's why where where stories persist and they will continue to persist, >> right? And just going off that football theme, um this and I'm I'm a big 49ers fan, but like the story of Brock Pury,

22:18it's like the last pick in the draft. He's a great player and um you know, people relate to that and it's a great story and I think everyone always roots for the underdog. Um so yeah, if you can craft a good story, it's going to create a fan base of super fans. Um that's why actually rolling off into this on the same topic is that you you guys did that documentary which I think um for people that don't aren't in the AI space like I was able to share that with a couple friends and then it gives them like a point of view like oh my goodness this is the AI gold rush this is happening right now and you guys did it I I don't know if it was you or in other people that that created that uh but the production was very high and it it just

23:03really gave you a good story of what's going on in this space and how can I get involved? Um, give us a takeaway. You were in it and um, and it was just this last summer, I think. What is going on? Like you were boots on the ground. That must have been a just eye opening experience. Like what are some things you learned during that time? Yeah, we wanted to create the AI gold rush documentary because of the opportunity that we see exist and we wanted to create it in a high quality way that like felt like a Netflix documentary >> so that people in the sauce like you and X and whoever and like Greg's YouTube channel, they could share it with, you

23:48know, like normal people and that could be like the on-ramp or like my wife wanted to watch it on Friday night, you know, like I called it like creating like Friday night content or like date night content where that just like doesn't exist. If I pull up like a YouTube video and it's like Greg interviewing, you know, air on how to use cursor, my wife is just, you know, turned off and just like not it. and she's a software developer, you know, like she like just, you know, it just doesn't drive drive her, you know, but like she was interested in the stories and the hackathon and seeing the UGC and seeing like the Chain Smokers and just like normal life overlapping with this like tech boom. And I think that's the cool thing about AI is it's normalizing

24:33and giving opportunity to people that, you know, previously like wouldn't wouldn't have existed, right? Like, yeah, you can build an app, but you can also like publish your child a child's story, you know, like it can be as little as like, oh my gosh, you know, I made a video for my kid to, oh my gosh, I made $2,000 by creating this startup and I just, you know, am it's growing like a weed and now I'm going to quit my job. So like the the ability that AI has to like affect the even the smallest things to like a life-changing event like building a business that you are able to replace your income. There's just immense opportunity and it's just really fun, you know, like we turned my dog into a Pixar character and made like a little children's book for our newborn

25:19and like that was just fun for us to do. Yeah. Previously insanely difficult and basically impossible. So it wouldn't have ever existed, you know, other than like in our heads. So that's what I think the that's why we wanted to create the AI gold rush is because they're and expose what people are doing and the crazy things that are going on just to give context. And once again, we're in the light bulb business to trigger some light bulbs in people. >> Yeah. >> I showed my friend a pre-cut and got his like normie feedback. >> Yeah. And within an hour of me leaving his house showing it. He he was like, "I just built my first website on Bolt, I've got my distributor signed up." And it's just like I get chills. Like I got chills when he text me that because he would have just hired a person on

26:05Upwork, you know, and right >> made three grand and been disappointed with it and it would have taken three weeks or whatever. He had it stood up like that afternoon. Um, and I I just don't think that's really ever been a thing before where everybody with internet and a computer has access to these tools. >> It's like you found something so good you just want to go up to people and shake them and go, "Are you building right now? What are you building?" Because I mean the world right now it is in America you know it's just like people are looking for ways to make extra money you know and you know and then this I always have this saying but your job is kind of like what they pay you to do but like your work your life work is what you were born to do. So

26:50like now this opens up the opportunity to anyone and not saying hey have a job keep a job do a job but now you can you know 9 to5 is your job what are you doing five to nine now you can build that thing you've wanted to build and you don't need to learn tailwind you don't need to learn all these coding languages to build something great and I just think that for people that are looking from the outside in like I was is like it's not going to take you that long to build what you want to build Um, and it can be as wide open as possible like you know what what are the what is the problems that you're facing building even building an app for yourself like what is something that can help you be better um you know with planning or you know calorie counting like you could build your own cali in a day and it's

27:35your own you know you can build your own user software is a thing right like disposable software is a thing like >> you know like for that SF trip building the AI gold rush we were going to like 40 different places in SF. I spun up like an itinerary app. >> Yeah. Nice. >> You know, and had three four users, but everyone on the team was able to like share share it out and like, hey, we're going there at 12. Here's the address. Click to call an Uber, you know. >> Have I opened that since May? >> For the next one. Yeah, >> it's bad. You know, maybe. Yeah, maybe the next one. But for all intents and purposes, that's cooked. So, yeah, single player software is um a huge trend, I think. and like family software and yeah I mean yeah software is eating

28:22the world I guess and AI is eating software as they say. >> Yeah. So yeah I mean the my biggest takeaway from that is um kind of what you're probably going to see more of but that um you kind of like that headquarters that where people can go and work on their um startup and there's like no interruption. The food is like done for them. and they hit the gong and I thought that that kind of just paradigm shift for me like wow that is >> HF0 >> yeah very like very niche right but I don't know of any other places like that that exist and I think that is allowing people to enter these flow states build what they want to build and I think it was like what every six months or eight

29:07months they like you know you turn turn over I don't think they have very many people there >> but the pe the success stories that came from that is really cool. Um, what are your thoughts on that? Like cuz I have four kids. I'm I'm running around, you know, to enter the flow state is literally like 6:00 in the morning to like 9 and then that's it. It's like I'm, you know, it's hard to get the hours. >> I didn't know you had four kids and now and you're vibing. It's crazy. You You got little mini agents running around. >> Yeah. Yeah. No. And and that's the cool thing for people that do have kids is that we're we're in very uh much involving them into their idea building, you know. Um, like our daughter learned how to crochet by using Claude on the

29:52side to ask about like how to do this stitch or whatever and YouTube videos. And now she's got a full-on business, you know, she's knocking out a like a stuffy every day um building with AI and using YouTube uh to build. So >> that's just so that's so cool, right? It's like she's like whether she sells it or not or gives them away or whatever. It's just I think people get wrapped up in like the get get rich quick kind of whatever. But like every time I'm like, "Oh, you could build your ideas." It's like I'm not telling you to like go get rich or make money. It's just like it's the fulfillment part of it, right? It's like her neigh, your neighbor has one of her stuffies that she made and she got something back from currency.

30:37And that dopamine trigger is an incredible like character builder in my opinion. >> Yeah. I think if you're getting into this space just because of money, you're going to be you you may make money, you may might make a lot of money, but it always goes back to like why are you doing what you're doing? And that's why you see a lot of people with a lot of money, they lose their why, and they're some of the most depressed people on the planet because they got a $100 million, but they don't know why. So, you got to go back to why are you building what you're building? And that's going to bring you the fulfillment. For me, an easy flip, I could care less if I had anyone use it. But I use it every day in my workflow. I'm uploading the photos, I click a button, the listings are done. Great. Saves me an hour a day. But, and if people use it and they go, "Wow, this

31:22helped me save more time." And that's where the fulfillment comes because that's why I built it because I want people to save more time, not have to do manual listings. >> Yeah. It's really cool, too, because like, you know, when we when you were building that, I think we tweeted we tweeted it out too and everyone was coming coming in the comments with like >> all the all the competitors, you know, or whatever. It's like you could use this, you could use that. Did you know this exists that sounds like this? It's like doesn't matter, dude. Like is like I'm building it and now he's got MR. So like you can just do things and competition doesn't matter as much. >> Yeah. There was um it's it's almost scary if in not saying it's not possible but you do want someone in the industry in that niche validate like they you

32:08want a big player in the in the niche. You want a you know someone that's making good money doing it. I mean, go look at all of the the stories out on YouTube on people who vibe coded and their their main thing was like, "Yeah, I just copied this app and made it my own. Made it 1% better and now I'm making 20k MR and it's literally a co cut and copy of something that's already there." um which I think like underrated going to Reddit, reading some of the reviews of that product, read the negative reviews, fix what they're failing on, and you build it and make it better. Um a lot of the times when the companies are so big, they can't, you know, they're like they can't have the swiftiness of like a single solo founder

32:53startup. they got 40 people on their team, you know, they can't just like turn quick on ideas, you know, it has to be like go through the board and, you know, do all this stuff where like a solo creator can like implement all these little things quick on the fly. So, I know there was a lot to unpack there, but that's how I see like how a solo creator can take a lot of market share because they're able to um head on a swivel and spin quick and, you know, correct a lot of problems. There's five billion people on the internet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. And they're all looking for something. Um so, so we went through Sora 2 kind of went off on on a trail there, but some of the things that have released recently that I've, you know,

33:38I've been using uh Sonnet 4.5. Um what is your go-to like coding agent? Um are you using Cloud Code? What are you using to build some ideas out? >> Yeah, Cloud Code. I'm like a big anthropic guy. Like I'm not anti- open AI. A lot of like AI uh API and SDK stuff I'm I'm down. Um and we use a lot. I'm not a developer by any means. I'm more like a vibe marketer trying to be more do more development stuff like no no no users just internal things that I'm kind of like personal software basically like Slack notifications that you know wrap up our week and close our books you know and you know just signal on conversion rate and little like Slackfunnel builders and stuff like that

34:23just stuff that I would like usually open 12 tabs and like manually track in an Excel spreadsheet but yeah clawed code is the goat Clode is my go-to and I use it inside ID my like cursor as IDE. Um I don't have an active cursor subscription but in case I ever want to I just kind of use cursor as the IDE. Um, and yeah, that's that's the main the main thing. And I've really been trying to build out these multi- aent flows um recently where I have like a master agent for one of our businesses like idea browser for example. Um, I'll have like a funnel architect and like kind of like my ma like my sidekick basically that calls

35:08all of these different agents to help us build and grow the product and the business. So, it's kind of like my eyes and ears on the data and I get a lot of like good growth ideas from that multi-level agent that it's uh it's trained off of like several different things like Horoszy's money models and um Russell Brunson's.com secrets and a bunch of other like Oglev copywriting just like all the stuff that has like kind of made me out to be who I am as a business person. And I've kind of trained these agents around that. So they give me good ideas, but they're not good enough to execute yet. Like I'm like, write a 7-day email sequence to help, you know, onboard the cl new users into product education. It can't do it.

35:54Like it won't like it's not a copy paste yet, but I'm like, give me 10 ideas and angles on how I can use psychology and and what positioning and case studies that we have that we can that we can use. gives me an amazing playbook that gets me way down the road, like 80% down the road, and then I can add the sauce on top and actually make it good. So, that's really what I'm using is like Claude Code every day and that that agent that agent flow. >> Yeah. >> And I know uh Open AI just released their agent builder and I know there's you know there's Lindy, there's Gumloop, there's Naden. Do you have you used the Open AI agent builder? Um, or what is a tool that you're using the most? >> I played I played with it a little bit.

36:39Honestly, I've been doing automations with Cloud Code and hosting them on GitHub actions for free. I think you get like 2,000 hours of runtime for free just on GitHub. I've been doing that and then also using Runway to host a couple like automations and stuff. Um, so I've been kind of like custom building uh a lot of the like automations and like agentic workflows that run on cron jobs >> um that are just like scheduled to hit after a certain time um and like send at 6 send to close a business report at 6 p.m. >> Yeah. >> You know, I'm on a walk and I get a little like end of day report and it fires me up. You know, it's like visitors conversion, you know, all the things that I would like look at. So, um, yeah, I've used the the OpenAI agent

37:24builder for a minute and Greg actually did an episode with air who really really dove into it and, um, it's early, you know, it's early. >> Yeah, I think it's um I think just being able to visualize not everyone is going to be in the terminal and you know, everyone's different, right? And I like being in the terminal because I like seeing what's going on and learning why are we making this change? But the visual builder um is so appealing because you get to see how it all looks. Um Paul was is building a an N8 workflow for Perfect Pick and him explaining it to me without the visual look, I have no I would have no idea what he's talking about, but since he's showing the screen, I'm like, "Oh, wow." the trigger that gets set off um in Google Sheets.

38:10It then sits off, you know, you to use our API to do the before and after photo and then it posts to Instagram and then it tags the real estate agent. I'm like that is uh that is so powerful that that's just one workflow you can build. Um but to visually see it, I think is going to open up the opportunity for people that only can do it visually. um and you know automate a lot of these things that you're doing within idea browser and stuff. Um yeah, it's just something that I haven't I haven't even I'm like in cloud code too. I don't you know I'm not really like I have a Lindy bot that um responds to emails for our clothing business, but um it's crazy. It's crazy. It's hard not to get lost in the sauce. Um there's just so much

38:56coming out. >> Yeah, I'm trying that's why I'm trying to stay like heads down on it, you know? It's like I tried the agent builder for a minute and I was like cool I get it. I agree this is where things are headed like visually. I wish they would have done like chat to workflow you know and just like yeah held off but they they got it out the door for dev day which I guess makes sense while they had like all the eyeballs on them. So I don't think people are going to be dragging dropping building agents. I I do think visuals matter a ton and that's why Naden is so valuable. They just raised like 180 million at like a $2 billion valuation and I mean it's insane. So like their main thing is visuals, right? Like it just like that's why everyone goes it goes crazy on on X and social is

39:42because like the visuals because humans process visuals like a thousand times faster than words or something insane, you know? And so it's like of course. So yeah, I I think if I was an audience member listening to this, oh, where do I start? I would just pick your pick your thing and get good at it. Like if you're a Claude guy and you want to use Claude Code and like just stay in that lane and of course there's going to be like little ancillary things that Claude Code will recommend to you. Go get like a railway or a Verscell or a you know some some tool you didn't know about and then you can like turn on your curiosity flip or switch and go go look at that and say okay actually yeah I should use Neon and Verscell makes a lot of sense you know. Boom. And now it's in my stack. Instead

40:28of like always exploring, you just don't you're just overwhelmed. >> Oh, me too. I I mean I I was like super basease and and all these things. It's like once you find a product that works in your workflow, um why would you why would you use anything else? the the things that I learned building our first product easy flip. I just took everything and applied it to perfect apic and it made building it within a a week or two it's done because I knew okay we can host the images on cloudflare R2 we can store all the credentials in the database using neon um we could use the free pick API to use um the upscaler and Gemini 2.5 to edit the photos so once you can like use the product once just stick with it um build

41:15once build once sell twice or explore once, use twice. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um you know, just like my the whole channel is focused for beginners. Um and like you know, if you're a beginner watching this, I just want to get your kind of thoughts on uh like what what would be some advice for people that maybe are looking at this video and going like, "Yeah, I don't know how to do it." You know, where do they start? Like how what's the quickest way from idea to building something? What should they do? >> Dude, let's jam on this because I think you have a really good like I would love to just, you know, like I think about it in um I called it like vibe it. It's like how would someone vibe it? What do you need to do? You need an you need an

42:00idea. You can go you can go to idea browser, use an idea agent, you know, go on Google trends, whatever you want to do, get an idea. Then you need a product requirement document, you know, like define it. So like idea, define it. And then what do you think? what what what would be the next step because I think you have like a really good workflow, you know, that that like JS kit that you were telling me about. >> Yeah. Yeah, I could. Yeah, that's that's a good one. But yeah, there is a process. There is a process. When I first started, I thought I could build my whole app using Bolt. And I think Bolt and Lovable are really good, and they've even gotten better. But I think if you're building something that's a little bit more, let's say you're connecting a few backend APIs and it's

42:45just a little bit more, you know, robust, I think that maybe you start in one of those platforms and then you download your repository and then plug it into something like codeex or cloud code, uh, GLM 4.1 or 4.6, you know, all these other agentic coding agents out there. Um once you you know get that going um that's the key. But for me not knowing very much about anything any of this um I just used straight up Claude. I just started a project and I told Claude, "Here's my problem." Um and I used idea browser to plug the PRD in and it just started spinning up all these things um that I could then take to Claude code. And um I was just very

43:31clear with Claude in the project that I'm not building this. I'm giving this all this to Claude code. So tell me what to tell Claude code to build. And that started it off because I don't know. So I don't know what to give Claude code to build the project, but Claude does. So Claude is like my expert uh advisor in building these projects. And every project I've started, I've always started a Claude project and I gave it the PRD and then we just rifted on that for a while. I had a good chunk of data to then take to cloud code. I said, "Let's build this." Created a PRD file. I opened a new folder. I dropped that in forward slashinit, which initializes Claude to start cooking with the the markdown file. Um the plan, the vision,

44:17um and and that kind of lays the foundation. That's how I've built it. It's going to be different for everybody, but I think using Claude or Chat GBT to start and you just basically like I use Whisper Flow. I don't I forgot how to type now. I'm just using Whisper Flow all the time. But um I'm literally just here's my problems and they're all unorganized thoughts, but at least it gets it out into the world where it's like I could see my problem now and Claude now can understand my problem and and all you have to do is say, "Claude, how do we build an app around this? How do I how do I solve this problem by building a solution?" And that's that's like how I do it. And I think that's how if you don't know what you're doing, I think that's how you should do it. You know, use one of these large language models to at least

45:04go from from um you know it living in your mind to actually manifesting it into the physical world because once you see it on in front of you, uh you're like, "Okay, now I can see this. Now, where do I take this information to now start building it?" Um and then off the next JS starter kit, I think is huge. Um, Ross Mike here on YouTube. Michael, uh, Greg, he's been on the podcast with Greg. Um, he has a couple starter kits and I think this is where people should start if you don't know, you know, you're just getting into the space and and I'll put it link down below, but it's a Nex.js starter kit that has everything you need to build the product that you're looking for. like you don't need to worry about what database am I going to use, what um am I going to use Tailwind or how am I going to use um you

45:51know for the UI. Um you don't need to worry about that because the starter kit has everything and then you can kind of make it your own. you know, it has everything to plug in for the database, um, authentication, has Google ooth, has a open AI SDK, um, where you could just plug it in, um, and and I'll link the tutorial down below, but if you're starting out, that's going to get you 90% of the way there. You could get your product built in a day. Um, I mean, there was a time when I was building Easy Flip, I was 21 days into it. I had to redo everything. I started over, but I started over with that next JS starter kit. I was able to build it all out in one day. What took me 21 days to build, I was able to just start over and use that starter kit and get everything

46:37built in one day because, you know, I didn't have weird tables in Superbase messed up and you know, everything was just so like overengineered and over like too much lines of code for nothing. >> How did you come on that by vortex? Like did you just start fresh to like download um the codebase to get like the PRD or you just literally started fresh? >> Yeah, I just used the PRD from the original and then uh actually I went to git ingest and I took that starter kit and I just put it into git ingest and then I copied that into claude project and I said this is our architecture that we're using now use this PRD but build it around that architecture. So it knew, okay, we're using Tailwind, we're using Shad CN, we're using Neon, we're using

47:22Better Off, we're using Open AI, and now how can we take the PRD and plug it into all these tools so it works? And I was like, that's how you do it because on Bolt, you don't really see the backend on how it's built. It's just like building it for you, but you don't know how anything works. >> And for me, I need to know how things work because I don't know what we're doing. Like I don't know. and things were breaking and I was like, there has to be a better way. So, yes, that starter kit and I mean I even recommend to people in Startup Empire like, "Hey, if you want to get going, use this." >> Oh, dude. I think I haven't used it yet because I haven't built like a full app, but I'm going I'm going to um Yeah. >> You want to let me share my screen? Oh, yeah. >> A little like we got a little flow

48:08diagram here if we want. Um I think this is just I don't know if this is helpful. Like you can go you can go to idea browser and idea builder if you want. You can also like dictate your problem if you have directly like use whisper flow directly into claude to get the p to get the prd. >> Did you just build that? >> Yeah. >> There we go. >> I mean you can use open or gemini but I think like for beginners like you need to be pursu like we're being prescriptive. Please don't explore everything. Just like follow this and just try and then if you don't like claude you can kill it, right? Like I think a lot of people will stay in this procrastination land and they just won't start. And that's like the biggest thing is like you need you need reps. Um so we got cloud code and then you're going to connect your GitHub because you need to

48:54like GitHub is like you know your where your your code like code lives basically for for complete beginners. And then you're going to use a database which would be Subabase or Neon or Railway is what I would recommend. And then you're going to like this is like the store it phase. Um I guess house it store it and then host it I guess. Are you using Verscell? >> Yeah. >> This I think this is it. >> That's what I did. There's Oth here like um use it. You know that old like the game like bop it, you know, twist it like child. That's what I that's what I think about when I'm like building SAS. I'm like, "All right, ust

49:39live it." >> Yeah. >> So, this is better off. and just in asking if you go back up to this PRD if you know all of this and just make the suggestion or or load this starter kit into Claude like you said and use it as a project and say like hey this is my idea tell me what I should use for it. I think this is it. >> Yeah, it was um hard to comprehend it. um like the steps when I was building with bolt and even just going into clawed code after that I was like there has to be a better way because this is not this is not doing what I want to do in following this simple framework or road map um just help me visualize it better understand what makes a successful app you don't need all these

50:24tools you literally just need authentication payments and uh a database to store all your credentials and um that's it So, yeah, using that was really helpful. And I'm trying to help a person that's um at our local church build a um they have a horse arena and they want to build an entire app around it where people can like log in and you know book a time to go, you know, ride their horse, train their horse or whatever. And we were able to build basically the whole app in like a 1-hour Zoom call when this guy had no experience. and I have very little experience, but we just jammed on. Huh? >> Uh, I actually have the Zoom recording. Um, but it's not public or anything, but

51:11>> yeah. Then that's And Eric's like, "Man, are we coding?" And it's like, "Well, we are, but we're just like vibe coding is what they call it." He's like, "Interesting." And he's just a little older than me and but really loves AI and wants to get involved. Um, they have an Airbnb they're going to launch, but instead of launching it on Airbnb, we're going to use what James the boring marketer kind of did with their local ranking for SEO and we're going to launch his own website with his own Airbnb app. So, um, you know, there's a lot of cool things that you can help people out with that they're all about. And, um, you know, it's just cool to see, you know, that's where I was a couple months ago, like, oh man, I can I can actually launch my own business doing this. So, um yeah, but I would say following that framework you outlined there. Um that that's the way you don't

51:57need to over complicate it and um it's really easy to get confused if you're looking at everything that's coming out. Um it's just you'll be you'll have that's the I think the my biggest struggle in this space is that oh I could build that, I could build that, I could build that. Um Brett in the group has a he's doing YouTube uh and his channel is like halfbaked projects and it's like that's that's the thing I think when most developers um you know they they build something and then maybe get 80% of the way there and then just jump onto the next thing. I don't want to be like that. I want to I want to actually see the the product through and launch it and then I can move on. But um yeah, just don't get lost. Follow that framework. I'll put links to everything

52:42down below and go build. Like I I you know want to talk to you know be many builders as as I can to just figure out like h what makes them um I just always goes back like how can I just go from zero to finish product as fast as possible because I think that in this day and age learning the skills as fast as you can is the biggest skill. like how can I get as good as I can using these tools and people will come knocking on your door saying hey build my build this for me um because you've developed that skill of learning the skills quickly um >> yeah totally I think that's why I say all the time like just get reps >> like your 21 days of building you rebuilt it the next day that's like the

53:29best case study ever is like took you 21 days to learn one day to do it the second time, one hour to do it the third time, one minute to do it the fourth time. I know that's insane, but you know, that's what reps do. >> Yeah. Um the there was a comment under that video said, "Well, you're not a developer yet until you've scrapped your project 10 times." >> And I felt like really demoralized and just wanting to quit after scrapping it the first time because I spent so much time doing it. And I think it was not only just a skill issue, but I learned so much in that 80 to 100 hours of time put in to restart over. It's like playing your favorite role playing game and you get to the final boss and then you start over and you're like, "All right, you know, I lost my save game on

54:15that. I'm starting over." But, you know, it's just like I learned so much in that experience that, you know, it you may need to scrap your project and you maybe have more clarity building it the second time around because I had so much overengineered code in there that it was like I only needed 300 lines of code to build what I wanted to build, but I had 300,000 lines of code. It was just clogging things up. So, um, and that's just a learning lesson. So, um, I think that if you're building wanting to build today, it's no better time. Um, and I'm happy to have you on. I don't want to take up your whole day, but let let's let's leave it on like a maybe like a hot take. What What is something that you feel strongly about that maybe is like an unconventional opinion out there?

55:00>> I would say nothing is dead. Everyone's like, "Rip, Zapier, Nate, Google, just nothing is dead and there's a lot of noise out there. Find what works for you. Chip away at it. You absolutely can do it. AI gives you the superpower to be to take your 10 years of experience in whatever domain you are in and layer in AI and you're a superhum that can build business. Like I came from the medtech world. I I'm helping my buddy who's a like a medtech entrepreneur and a a nurse. Like he knows medtec cold and now he's like an AI expert and medtec plus AI. He's like now becoming the guy for that and he just he felt like it was

55:47insane like a year ago when he started doing it and now he's like building custom apps for medtec manufacturers and it's like that's insane. So if you have 10 years of experience in anything layer AI and you are superhum go build and tell me about it because it fires me up and this is what we love to do. >> Yeah. And that was one of my questions, but it was asking what industry do you think is the furthest behind when it comes to AI? And and you just said it right there was like if you're skillful in something, how can you implement AI into that skill? And you're you're going to be a founding father in that niche, you know, because you implemented AI. >> You actually are. You actually are because you have how that industry works in your brain. No model has that and

56:34they're never going to have it because they're all racing toward like general intelligence. So what's going to be available to conquer niche intelligence? Do you think there is a timeline for builders right now to um you know not be like so laxidasical in building because like do you think there's like a timeline where like hey this is the opportunity but it's not going to be forever and how long do you think that is >> dude I would said I mean I change a lot but I would say like depends like if you're building in like SAS and like very competitive like edge of the earth stuff where you like would get your customers on Twitter you you might you might have minus eight months you know, like it's maybe too late. But if you're going into like local businesses, these um old industries um

57:22like medtech or health tech or realators or like there's a ton, right? Like I would just not go and do anything in tech. I would take the tech experience. Like if you're getting your customers on X, I I probably wouldn't play in that space if I was just starting. But I would say like 18 to 24 months, you still there's still plenty of of runway. And I would say in some industries, like my medtech friend like has a hard time convincing them to buy is what he says because it's so early. Like they know they need it, but they don't know what they need. And um so like as chat GBT layers in chat apps that just relapsed this week like that interface they're already going to be in which reduces the friction for builders to also build in

58:08that interface. You know it's like kind of like how the internet started. It's like imagine going and knocking on you know like an old manufacturers's door in 1990 and be like do you want dialup connection? They would say no. you know, they need it and could use it. It will help their business, but they don't know. >> They would say no. So, that's where I think we're at. And I like to look in like how I think history repeats itself. So, um I like to look in the past of like you remember AOL used to send 30 minute free trial CDs. >> Yep. >> To your mailbox. >> Yeah. >> And you used to put them in your computer and that's how you got on the internet. >> That is insane. >> That is That is I think I still have one. I'm pretty sure I got one. >> Put it in a Put it in a frame.

58:54>> Exactly. >> I don't know if it's 18 months, 24 months, 9 months. It doesn't really matter. You just need to be nimble and flexible and um ride ride the wave. And this is the wave. No question. >> 100%. Yeah. I I would like to have you on again. Uh like name the SE segment Mix It Up with Jordan. >> Mix Oh, anytime, dude. I'm happy to do this. This is fun, dude. For real. Appreciate it. I hope this is valuable to to people. Um you know where to find me and um hit me up if you need anything or if you have an idea and want to want to jam on it. >> Yeah, I'll put links to everything we talked about down below. Um are you able to share that little diagram? >> Oh yeah, for sure. >> I wouldn't say this diagram is amazing like

59:40>> but it will get you going, right? That's what we're doing here. >> Yeah, I love it. Well, I appreciate your time, man. And uh yeah, we'll have you on in the future. >> All right, my man. Thanks, Bo. Appreciate you.